Catalyst N° 095 of 125 29 Jan 2026
The rise of permissionless DERs
with James McGinniss, co-founder and CEO, David Energy
In this note
The question
What are “permissionless” distributed energy resources, and can batteries small enough to plug into a wall outlet ever add up to enough capacity to matter?
The answer
Yes on both, on McGinniss’s account, and the reason is economic rather than technical. A standard household outlet is already a legal two-way connection to the grid, so a device that uses one skips the interconnection process and the electrician. That removes the soft costs that make up roughly half of a conventional residential install, which turns distributed storage from a premium resilience product into a cheap affordability product and opens it to renters, who have never been an addressable market. He would not be shocked to see tens of gigawatts in the US within five to ten years, and offers that as a personal expectation rather than a forecast.
03The argument
Permissionless, in McGinniss’s usage, means anything that gets onto the grid without an interconnection agreement; he says he now prefers “plug-in” when talking to customers because it describes what the thing actually is. The physical insight underneath does most of the work in the episode. A 120-volt or 240-volt outlet is already a bi-directional connection point, and it is safe to push power into it at the circuit level, so a device using one inherits an interconnection that already exists. A conventional battery install, by contrast, means opening the electrical panel, which he likens to open-heart surgery, and it is that surgery which drags in the electrician, the design work and the utility paperwork.
The consequence is economic, not physical. Soft costs, meaning permitting, labor and customer acquisition, run at 50% or more of a residential install, and plug-in attacks all three at once: no permit under the rules being written now, no installer, and a product bought online rather than sold door to door. What is left is hardware, so the floor on distributed storage falls to the cell cost and nothing else. Conventional installs cannot follow, because their soft costs do not get cheaper when cells do. This is why he insists the category is about affordability rather than resilience. The last decade of residential storage sold resilience as a premium product; a device with no soft costs is selling bill savings, which is a different customer entirely.
Kann puts the obvious objection: the batteries are tiny, so even a cheap one can only shave a sliver of a bill. McGinniss’s answer is that small is only meaningful relative to the load it serves. A one-kilowatt battery is a large share of a one-bedroom apartment’s draw, and renters are a market nobody currently addresses at all. His evidence is Germany, where retail power at 40 to 50 cents a kilowatt-hour made plug-in systems pay for themselves purely by avoiding purchases, with no export compensation, no net metering and no virtual power plant required. Kann notes, and McGinniss agrees, that the German wave is mostly balcony solar rather than batteries, so the precedent is about purchasing behavior and the install model more than about the specific device. The same logic runs in commercial buildings through a different lever: a small business exposed to demand charges can save around $50 per month for each kilowatt of peak it shaves, which compounds across multiple locations.
The regulatory turn is the part most likely to be missed, because two different ceilings are in play. Bills introduced in roughly 24 to 30 states set an export limit, typically about 1.2 kilowatts per meter, derived from what a 20-amp circuit can carry; the utilities’ concern is line workers encountering an energized line during an outage. But a system that never exports, one that simply carries load off the grid, arguably falls outside that regime entirely, and McGinniss raises this as an open question rather than a settled one: does 20 kilowatts of behind-the-meter capacity on a 50-kilowatt peak need an interconnection agreement at all? That distinction is what lets him talk about 5, 10 and 20 kilowatt systems installed through outlets while the pending legislation argues over 1.2. His aggregate case rests on it. Against grids with 30 to 90 gigawatt peaks, he argues these resources could reach double-digit percentages of capacity, 10% or more, rather than being a rounding error. He does not walk through the arithmetic that gets there, and when Kann asks the narrower question of whether a portfolio of these devices could be packaged as capacity to accelerate a data center interconnection, McGinniss calls the example interesting and moves to the grid-wide number instead of endorsing the deal structure.
04What you need to know first
- Interconnection agreement
- The utility’s permission and paperwork for connecting a generating device to the grid, and the queue that goes with it. Avoiding it is the entire definition of “permissionless.”
- Behind the meter versus export
- A device can either reduce what a building draws from the grid, which the meter sees as lower consumption, or push power back out onto it. Almost every regulatory fight in this episode is about the second case only.
- Soft costs
- Everything in an installed system that is not hardware: permitting, design, labor, sales and customer acquisition. The claim that these are half of a residential install is the load-bearing number here.
- Demand charge
- A commercial bill component priced on the highest power draw in the period rather than on total energy used. It is why a small battery can be worth more to a business than to a household.
05Details worth keeping
- The category is broader than batteries. McGinniss cites a battery built into a cooktop (Impulse Labs), battery-buffered DC fast charging that avoids an interconnection upgrade (Electric Era), and a battery inside a heat pump (Carrier). Commercial and industrial off-grid systems may still need permits even when they need no interconnection.
- Safety is largely settled even where policy is not. He says UL-certified products conforming to the electrical code, which he names only as the NEC and never spells out, are already allowed under current guidance. The live disputes are local fire and permitting authorities and the state export bills.
- Demand response eligibility is set by program rules, not physics. An aggregator may face a 100-kilowatt threshold while the per-device minimum runs as low as 100 or even 10 watts. He cites a possible 10-kilowatt-per-meter rule in the New York grid operator’s territory against Massachusetts enrolling devices directly without going through the meter.
- Duration comes from the pairing, not the battery. Systems are often sized roughly one-to-one with the load, so a 1.2-kilowatt battery attached to a 400-watt appliance behaves as a three-hour battery.
- Product design is still at the beginning. Early plug-in deployments used camping power stations because that is what existed. The open questions are basic ones: 120 versus 240 volts, whether the unit hangs on a wall, sits on a fridge or tucks into a corner, and whether it is built to be networked at utility scale rather than as a consumer appliance.
- Kann’s framing of customer acquisition cost is stronger than McGinniss’s answer. Kann says the model only works if that cost is effectively zero; McGinniss says a digital channel still carries one, that it differs between a manufacturer listing a product for sale and a third party recruiting devices into a virtual power plant, and that even if it is not zero it is exponentially cheaper than door knocking.
06Claims worth citing
All figures as stated on 2026-01-29. The regulatory count describes pending legislation and will move quickly; the cost figures are a founder’s characterization of his own market rather than published data.
- Soft costs are typically 50% or more of a residential install, and plug-in can put them near zero. The three components named are permitting, labor and customer acquisition cost. McGinniss
- Bills allowing grid export from plug-in devices have been introduced in roughly 24 to 30 states, typically capping export at about 1.2 kilowatts per meter, tied to the capacity of a 20-amp circuit. McGinniss
- Germany adopted about 4 million of these systems over four years, more than a gigawatt of installed capacity. He describes that as about the same size as traditional single-family installs, which could mean comparable in unit count or in capacity; the transcript does not resolve it, and 4 million units to one gigawatt implies a very small average system. McGinniss
- German retail electricity at 40 to 50 cents per kilowatt-hour was the trigger for that adoption, with the value coming from avoided purchases rather than export compensation. McGinniss
- New York City commercial work is yielding about $50 per month for each kilowatt of demand shaved. McGinniss
- Installed cost is under 10% of total system cost in their commercial applications and “closer to zero” in residential plug-in. This is a different metric from the 50% soft-cost figure above. McGinniss
- Kann’s payback arithmetic, which McGinniss does not confirm: $50 per month is $600 a year, against a residential battery at perhaps $800 per kilowatt-hour today and maybe $400 later, giving payback under a year. The savings figure is per kilowatt of demand and the cost figure is per kilowatt-hour of energy, so the two do not combine cleanly. Kann
- Tens of gigawatts of these systems in the US over the next five to ten years, stated as something that “wouldn’t shock” him rather than as a projection. McGinniss
- Against grids with 30 to 90 gigawatt peaks, potential in the double-digit percentages of capacity, “10% or more.” Stated as potential, with no arithmetic given. McGinniss
- A data-center-scale deal built from these devices would need roughly 100 megawatts, implying about one hundred thousand premises. Kann
07Where it’s contested
- The founder is describing his own market. McGinniss runs a company deploying these systems, no third-party deployment data or independent cost study appears, and Kann does not press for one. Kann states no financial interest in the company. The category diagnosis is separable from the company’s prospects and is the more durable part.
- The regulatory status of the non-exporting case is unresolved, by his own account. He raises the question of whether large behind-the-meter capacity that never exports needs an interconnection agreement, and leaves it open. Much of his scale argument depends on the answer being no.
- The scale objection is answered by redefinition rather than rebuttal. Kann’s point is that a tiny battery saves little; McGinniss’s reply is that the right comparison is a small load, which is true and also narrows the market to apartments and small commercial sites. He concedes that apartments specifically are “a little limiting” relative to what plug-in could do generally.
- Customer acquisition cost is asserted rather than demonstrated. The claim moves from plug-in “totally removing” that cost to it being not zero but small, within a few minutes and without a figure.
- The German precedent is a solar precedent. Both speakers acknowledge the four million systems are largely balcony solar, while the US category under discussion is mostly batteries, which earn their return through a different mechanism.
- Product maturity is early by his own description. He calls form factors “extremely nascent” and notes the companies in the space have nearly all been founded within the last five years.